Christians Vs Homosexuals Part 1

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I was watching this video from Frances Chan the other day and he was speaking of some time he spent in Europe. During this time he was brought to some historic churches and he shared some of their history that put Christianity on the wrong side of some social issues of the day. At the end of sharing this he poses a question. What is the modern church on the wrong side of currently? This is an open ended question that gave me pause and challenged me to reflect. You can watch the video here. The section I am referring to is between minute 3;15 to 5:15 if you want the short version.

Check out from 3:15 to 5:15

I am in no way reflecting the thoughts of Francis Chan, but this is my own personal opinion of what I believe the Church is failing on. I believe our actions toward the homosexual community is causing  damage and divisions in place of love and unity. I by no means have a complete understanding  of all the issues involved, but by the backlash from both camps I know enough to know we are missing something. This is going to be a little deeper than most of my posts so I apologize if I lose anyone here, but I will try to make my thoughts as concise as I can. I also know that this is a highly sensitive issue so I will try to treat it with the utmost respect. I wish to just open some dialogue for healthy lines of communication and understanding.

I am going to be using a book of Philippians in the bible as my main reference to make my first point.The letter was written by a guy named Paul. Paul was a highly ranking religious leader of his time. Kind of like a Cardinal in the Catholic church if we needed to make a modern day example of his position .So many would consider him a very holy person, and a godly man who was very righteous. Speaking to this he writes this in Philippians 3:4-6  “though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:
3:5  circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;
3:6  as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.”

In other words he is saying if you think you are righteous, holy or godly, I am more than you. So if anyone is going to live a godly life it would be him, right…? Wrong. He writes in Rom 7:15 “For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.”  Even though he is the holy roller, he cannot stop doing things he doesn’t want to do, and can’t do the things he wants to do. Why is that? Well, because he is a sinner. I know, you are thinking how can I call such a good man a sinner?

You see,we are not considered sinners because we have sinned, but rather we are sinners because we have a sinful nature. Therefore we cannot help ourselves but to sin. This is the whole reason for the law, it is not to try and uphold every law (commandment) given, rather it was given to expose our sin nature. To prove this point let’s look at when Moses was being given the 10 commandments. The first two being: Thou shalt not have any other gods before me, or make any carved image. These are the very first commandments, and while they were being given on top of Mt Sinai, the Israelites were at the bottom of the mountain making a golden calf to worship. God couldn’t even get  the words out before they already failed at it. Another verse that speaks of our sinful nature is this: Rom 3:10-12 as it is written: None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

  Not even you, you righteous church goer lest you become self righteous and start thinking you are better than anyone else. Going back to Philippians, Paul doesn’t end his thought by giving us his wonderful resume of how awesome and godly he is, he continues with this.
Php 3:7 “ But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
3:8  Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.”

That word rubbish is translated into dung or crap. In other words all of those titles and positions he has he compares it to crap. Not only is he saying it is useless or worthless, he is saying it is actually repulsive and disgusting. This is where I think many of us are missing the boat. We think our crap doesn’t stink, and that we are somehow more holy, worthy, righteous and better than others, say homosexuals. I think Paul gets it, he understands that his high position means nothing. He knows he is a sinner by nature, he knows he is no different than anyone else when it comes to this. That is why he gives us his resume. In case someone thinks he is more godly than him. You are not going to outdo Paul in following the Law and he still says it is all crap. It is all crap that is, compared to the surpassing worth in Jesus Christ. He finishes his thought with this,

Php 3:9 “and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith”   He understands that the only righteousness he has comes through faith in Christ Not by following the Law or commandments Therefore neither should we think ourselves righteous or better than anyone else no matter how good you think you are. Because our righteousness does not come from what we do, how good we think we are, because we are all sinners, Rom 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”,  Last I checked all means all.

If our righteousness is not by our own doing, but only through Christ than what gives us the right to think we are better than or more righteous than anyone else. I think this is a big idea to wrap our heads around. You are no better than anyone, you are not holier than the worst sinner, you and I are the worst sinner. Again all means all, you are no different than the person you are judging, if you are a Christian the only difference is the righteousness of Christ in you. It is not until we see our goodness and self righteousness as crap, that we can only begin to judge others.

Part 2 will deal with how I believe the church should respond to and treat homosexuals in a biblical context.

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13 Comments

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13 responses to “Christians Vs Homosexuals Part 1

  1. theBlackSheepPrincess

    I like what you’re saying. My heart goes out to the homosexual community big time. I don’t see that behavior any different than any other behavior the Bible speaks out against. There’s no difference between that and someone who gossips or refuses to forgive or tells a white lie. No difference whatsoever.

    We are called to love people where they are at. Jesus didn’t bring about big change in people by condemning them. He brought about big change in them by loving them. I love the story of Zacchaeus. Jesus didn’t say one word to him about his sin. He loved him right where he was at and that empowered and compelled Zacchaeus to change and run towards a deeper relationship with God and to remove things that could obstruct that all on his own. Jesus knew that loving Zacchaeus right where he was at was not condoning or agreeing with his sinful actions. We are called to do the same that Jesus did. ❤

    • Kevin SIne

      Zacchaeus is a good example of this, thanks for pointing that out. Another story similar to this is, once at my church 3 ladies came to know the Lord on night. During there time of prayer and receiving new bibles they shared with the elders that they were strippers. Instead of the elders telling them they needed to stop they said nothing. They continued stripping for a few more weeks until 2 of the 3 came back to talk to the pastor and said “I don’t know why but we feel like we shouldn’t be doing this anymore.. The pastor shared that this was the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sin. So they stopped and moved on to some other form of employment. I guess the take away is. To love people. show them the Love of Christ and let him convict them of their sin instead of us. Anyway thanks for checking out by blog and thanks for your feedback

  2. Pingback: Christians Vs. Homosexuals Part 2 | Pieces of Truth

  3. Hej Kevin,

    Thank for this post.

    Are we not considered sinners because we have both sinned and(not or) we have a sinful nature?

    What I am getting is that could I be considered a thief just because I have a thief-ish nature? Or because I stole something and I do have a theif-character in me?

    I would love to know your thoughts, Kevin, on this one.
    Prayson

    • Kevin SIne

      I do believe when we sin this does make us a sinner. What I am also trying to get at is we sin because we have a sinful nature. We just can’t help it. Like the verses I used from Romans when Paul is struggling with sin and can’t seem to stop. It is because it is our nature to sin. But also in James 4:17 “So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is a sin. What I am battling against is how we as Christians sometimes feel we are above other sinners not recognizing that by nature and by action we are guilty. It is only by Christ that we are righteous and Christ alone. Not because we are better than homosexuals rather we are made clean by Christ not because we are not gay. Again in Romans it quotes the Psalm “no one is good no not one” Not you, not me, not the homosexual. The only one good is Christ and He makes us perfect through his sacrificial death on the cross. I hope that clears it up a little.

      • How would you, Kevin, explain the sin of Eve and Adam pre-fall? Did they sin because they also had sinful nature?

      • Kevin SIne

        No, they did not have a sinful nature.Gen 2:25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. But us being there offspring and all those who came after do. Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned–
        I appreciate your comments, you are causing me to really dig my thoughts. Iron sharpening iron.
        What are your thoughts?

      • Thanks for you wonderful reply. I love deep thinking of what we believe. The more we think about God the more we love God. Thinking is one of the means to enjoy and delight in God.

        I have been thinking a lot about original sin. Rom. 5:12b ,Paul said “so death spread to all men because all sinned”. Not because of Adam. Indeed sin came into the world because of Adam(Rom. 5:12a).

        I would love to know, Kevin, what you think?

      • Kevin SIne

        Hey Prayson, If you follow Romans 5 down a little further to vs 18-19 it says “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous.” These verses to me say that through Adams sin God thought all descendants of Adam were sinners, even though I didn’t exist yet to sin I was seen as a sinner. I was guilty. Just as much as I was made righteous through Christ for my sins that were not committed yet, but I was already pronounced guilty. As it says in Romans 5:8,”While we were yet sinners Christ died for us”. So to me all were guilty through one man and all can be made righteous through on man. Wow Romans 5 is getting a workout. Just to give another book some love also look at Eph.2:3 “We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind”

      • I totally agree with you, Kevin, that Adam was our representative. His fall is our fall as, Christ, Second Adam is our representative of our righteousness.

        I wanted us to be careful not to say that we are sinner because of our sinful nature but both our sinful nature and that we really have sinned.

        This reasoning, Kevin, will also follow that we are not all considered righteous(unless we accept universalism) because of Jesus righteousness but believers are considered righteous because of Jesus righteousness and that God declare them righteous(justification).

        I think it’s both-and. Let me know, Kevin, your thoughts.

      • Kevin SIne

        Yes Prayson, I agree it is both, But it this particular post I was trying to point out that even though we are not gay we are still sinners and are no better. the only difference is Christs righteousness. I also agree we are all sinners yet we are not as righteous only if we confess our sins to Christ and accept His atoning sacrifice are we made righteous. Funny you should mention universalism, I just started reading Francis Chan’s book “Erasing Hell” which deals with the universalist ideals of Rob Bell.

    • Thank you, Kevin, for wonderful exchanging. Enjoy Chan’s book. Thank you for pieces of truth. May God bless you and do pray that Christians will learn from Christ Jesus to love Homosexuals as He love us while we were yet sinners.

      Grace and peace of our Lord and our God be upon you, Kevin.

      • Kevin SIne

        Thank you for challenging me and your kind words. I will continue to check out you site as apologetics is a passion of mine as well.

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