Christians Vs. Homosexuals Part 2

stoning-hate

So we just concluded that Christians are not different than anyone else regarding their own righteousness. We are all sinners with a sinful nature, see part one for greater clarification on this issue. So the this begs the question, so now what? How should Christians respond going forward? Just to clarify a point regarding a difference between Christians and non Christians. Christians are righteous, just in case this point was missed. The thing we sometimes forget is that it is not our works or actions that makes us righteous but rather we have Christ’s righteousness. It says in 2Co 5:21  “For our sake he made him(that is Christ) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” It was on the cross when we switched places, he bore our sins and we took His perfection. It is because of this that we are called to a separate way of living that He gives us the ability to do. That is what we are going to talk about today.

Jesus was known to be a friend of sinners, I find that very interesting, I wonder if that would be said about me? That is because he wasn’t always hanging out in synagogues (churches) rapping with the Pharisees and Sadducees(Religious leaders of the day) discussing how great they were and how lowly the sinners were. No, he was hanging out with what the religious people would call the sinners. How often do we isolate ourselves in our churches with like minded people talking about the sinners of the world like we are so great and holy. It is very easy to get wrapped up in holy living and pointing out everyone’s sins and we begin to separate big sins from little sins. Homosexuality, Adultery, prostitution, whoa they’re the biggies. While hatred, gossiping, and slander, well they’re not so bad right? This  is our mind set in the churches these days. We put our arms around someone who is ruining there marriage cause there checking out porn on there computers and we say things like “I’ll pray with you brother”,but if he comes in and says I hooking up with another guy, we’ll just run to the hills, there is no help for him cause he is a sinner. This reminds me of a story in the Bible. It is found in John 8:3-11 and goes like this “The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery.  Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?”  This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”  And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground.  But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him.  Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”  She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

When you read that story, whose side are you on the woman’s or the religious leaders? I am assuming you chose the woman’s, but why? she committed a big sin. She was caught in the  very act of adultery, ripped right out her bed and thrown into the streets.We deserve, no we demand justice, but instead  we see Jesus showing compassion and mercy for the woman. That is what wins us over in the story and it wins the woman too. He did not condemn her, rather He loved her, and had mercy on her. But when it comes to homosexuality how many times are we found standing with the rocks in our hands, arms cocked and ready to throw, wanting to condemn  instead of loving and showing compassion? And I love what Jesus says “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” Now from the previous post we know that we are ALL sinners, but sometimes we forget that and we judge those we are not comfortable with.

Jesus spent His years in ministry almost doing the opposite of what we do. He went around loving sinners and condemning the religious leaders. While we go around condeming sinners and loving our religious leaders. In the book of Matthew after a long list of Woe to you’s that he directs to the religious leaders he says this in Matthew 23:25  “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
23:26  You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
23:27  “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.
23:28  So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness
”.

Again, it is easy to say” Yeah, you tell em’ Jesus” all the while we find ourselves to often in this same scenario. We must be careful not to appear righteous on the outside only. but in our hearts also. And lastly I wanted to point out that we are to love others. That is what is supposed to separate us from non Christians. Read these verses

Luk 6:31  And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Luk 6:32  “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
Luk 6:33  And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
Luk 6:34  And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount.
Luk 6:35  But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
Luk 6:36  Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.
Luk 6:37  “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven”
Mat 5:43  “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.

5:44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
5:45  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
5:47  And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
5:48  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect
.

and Lastly in John 13:35  “By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I know I am overwhelming you with verses and maybe you got tired of reading them, but Jesus had a lot to say about Love, mercy and forgiveness. Therefore that is where our hearts should also be. We need to come out of our comfort zone and and embrace those whom you feel are different from you and maybe you feel more righteous than. Maybe for you it is not the homosexual community you are uncomfortable with. For you it could be those with drug addictions or prostitution of inmates in prison. Whatever it is remember you are not greater than anyone, more self righteous than anyone but our righteousness comes from Christ. Let us show that instead of showing our bigotry and judgmental hearts

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11 Comments

Filed under Christian living, Religion

11 responses to “Christians Vs. Homosexuals Part 2

  1. Carol

    I can love anyone, but I can hate what someone does or what they stand for. I can hate the fact that people try to push their agenda on us and our young children. I can hate TV programs that push the agenda and show homosexuality as being accepted universally. I can hate that they adopt children and indoctrinate them. I can hate that our legal system allows them to adopt children. And, I can hate what homosexuality does to our country by accepting it as normal and as an acceptable lifestyle. You can love someone, but hate their lifestyle.
    Homosexuality is the only sin that I can remember in the Bible that God called “an abomination.” Lev. 18:22. Wasn’t one of the reasons that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed was because of homosexuality? Gen. 18&19

    • Kevin SIne

      I don’t have time to respond fully, but in the interim meditate on 2Cor. 4:1-6. When I get more time I will respond more completely to your thoughts. And thanks for sharing

    • Kevin SIne

      Ok, So what I am trying to say in that verse and also look to the left a little in 2Cor 3:13-18. Both of these verses tell us that without Christ we are living our lives with a veil over our eyes. We are unable to see the light until He removes the veil, until then we are living in darkness. It is Christ and Christ alone who can reveal. So in there minds they think we are pushing our agenda on them, and can’t understand why we just won’t let them get married. So my point to the post is not to overlook sin, but to see if we are missing anything in the way we are treating this. If you read my first post or watched the video I put up it asks the question are we missing anything in our contemporary society that we might be on the wrong side of. This was my thoughts on it. But as I read some posts from the homosexual community they definetly feel as though we hate them. And if we are to be ambassadors for Christ then we may not be doing a great job. How are they to know God’s love and His overwhelming grace when all they feel is hatred? I am not saying I am right or wrong but I think it needs more looking into.

  2. Jay

    I believe you are right in bringing this to the attention of other Christians. I think it is time that the church wakes up and start treating sin like it has different levels. God see’s all of our sin as EQUAL. My biggest issue with how church addresses this topic is this… there are certain verses that SHOULD NOT be used to defend what God’s Word says about homosexuality. There are certain verses that are constantly taken out of context. (People tend to do that a lot) There are some that we still can use and stand firm on. Just like Tattoos for example – so many Christians have an issue with them. Why? “Well.. its says in the Bible that it is wrong.” Do they know what the context of that is? Many do not – if they did they would see it was talking about marking the dead and getting involved in those types of pagan death rituals – not putting something beautiful art on your body.
    A lot of the issue is the fact that most homosexuals do not consider what they are doing is a sin. I strongly agree that we need to reach out to them and love them. It is easy for us to say, “Love the sinner – hate the sin.” I can understand why they would get so upset with Christians. Who wants to hear that, “Well… you love me but you do not accept me for who I am?” In their eyes… how is that love? In many cases you might as well call it what it is – people hate the sinner AND the sin. There is a difference beween accepting someone and embracing that lifestyle.

    I agree that there sin is no different than our and shame on us if we treat them any different. I get that. MY issue is this… we are sinful but as a Christian we are supposed to be going to the Lord and asking for forgiveness. There is a big difference between someone is living in sin and not aknowledging it or refusing to believe that it is a sin. And someone that is sinning and yet continues to turn to God for that forgiveness. All of us are going to fall flat on our face time and time again. We are to STRIVE to be perfect, knowing all along that we will never achieve that perfection until we are with Him in heaven. But we must seek out that forgiveness and to do our best to AVOID sin. When we knowingly sin and ignore it… we are going to be held accountable for that. That is where the difference is in all of this.

    Scripture talks how we are not to linger in that sin or go back to sin that we find ourself addicted to…Proverbs 26:11 it is like As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.(sin)

    As Christians we are quick to tell homosexuals that their sin is an abomination. Ummmm… yeah… ALL SIN is an abomination to God. Many of these things are stuff that we simple do not practice anymore – we are under the new covenant. Have you gotten a haircut lately or eaten a cheeseburger? If so… you are an abomination to God. See what I am getting at here? I try to live by two rules… love people and love God. If i can do those things I will fall into the guidelines that Gods Word has placed before me and honor Him in everything I do.

    Other things that are an abomination:

    Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
    Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
    Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
    Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
    Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
    Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
    A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
    A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
    A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
    Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
    A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
    Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
    A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
    A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
    Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
    A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
    Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
    The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
    The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
    The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
    Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
    Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
    Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
    Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
    Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
    Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
    Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
    Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
    Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
    Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
    Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
    Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
    Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
    Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God’s house (Dt. 23:18)
    Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
    Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
    Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
    Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
    Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
    Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
    Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
    Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
    Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
    Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
    Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
    Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
    Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)

    • Kevin SIne

      Wow, great response Jay, I appreciate your thorough and knowledgeable reply. And I agree with what you are saying regarding forgiveness and repentance, but that is IF they are a Christian. Otherwise it’s a moot point. It would be great for all of us to recognize we are all sinners by our sinful nature and only saved by the grace of God and not what we do. Then be able to share this grace that we have received with others so they can have it too. It is too bad you moved away prior to us getting to hang out a little more. Thanks for sharing

      • Jay

        Thanks and yeah, wish we got to hang out before our family moved as well. Regarding your response… yes, you are right. However, if anyone that is a homosexual does not see what they are doing AS SIN and you are trying to witness to them… it is going to be VERY difficult for them to make the connection of seeking to live a Holy life and to strive for that perfection and turn away from their sinful lifestyle if they do not see a problem with what they are doing.

        One more thing that I always found interesting that kinda ties in with this discussion is that there is scripture in the Bible that was never intended for people outside the church. This scripture was directed and supposed to be used for “in house issues.” Yet… Christians time and time again use these standardards & guidelines to tell non-Christians how to live and what they are doing wrong! (This is off the top of my head so…If I’m not mistaken a good example of this is in 1 Corinthians 4 or 5?)

        Regarding the love issue that was discussed above. I think MOST people have an issue with this word and what it really means. If we look at Gods definition of this word… how many of us can honestly say this is what our love for others look like?

        1 Corinthians 13

        1 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

        4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

        8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

        13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

  3. Robin

    “And lastly I wanted to point out that we are to love others. That is what is supposed to separate us from non Christians”

    So I am unable to love others because I am not a Christian? Bullshit. Sanctimonious bullshit.

    I’ve substituted the word Christian for the word homosexual from Carol’s comment and find that it absolutely fits for me:

    I can love anyone, but I can hate what someone does or what they stand for. I can hate the fact that people try to push their agenda on us and our young children. I can hate TV programs that push the agenda and show Christianity as being accepted universally. I can hate that they adopt children and indoctrinate them. I can hate that our legal system allows them to adopt children. And, I can hate what Christianity does to our country by accepting it as normal and as an acceptable lifestyle. You can love someone, but hate their lifestyle.

    Kevin your thoughts are logical. I don’t subscribe to an indoctrinated dogma, but agree that we should love our fellow man and not judge. The religious leaders have turned out to always be the most corrupt amongst us.
    If the everyday Christians would stop judging others (as Carol so blatantly does), just live their own lives and show love without prejudice (which Carol can’t do because she’s so indoctrinated to hate from the Christian leaders), the rest of us wouldn’t hate you so much.

    • Kevin SIne

      Hi Robin, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as far as this quote and your reply “And lastly I wanted to point out that we are to love others. That is what is supposed to separate us from non Christians” So I am unable to love others because I am not a Christian? You filtered it by implying that you can’t love. I never said you can’t love? I am pointing out that Christians with our indoctrinated dogma are required to love. You if not a follower of Christ you are your own boss and can do whatever you want according to societal rules. You are not commanded to love, I am. I am not saying you cannot or should not love others, I would greatly appreciate it if you did.:) And regarding your last comment regarding religious leaders and as you put it, the everyday Christian judging others, is one of the main reasons I wanted to throw this post out there. There is obviously a disconnect here and I wanted to open up the lines of communication to help resolve these tensions.

  4. Michael

    It reminds me of a line in a movie where Kevin Spacey says isnt it funny how your Christians and Buddist act so unlike Christ and Budda. I agree with ya Kevin, well I have to since you have always accepted me as family regardless of my actions!!

  5. Thanks Kevin for a wonderful article. I always say to homosexual person that I dearly love them. If Christ could love a radically deprave worst sinner like me, how dare I not love them.

    I love them but do not agree with that way of life. I make sure that they understand that I can truly love them yet disagree with their sexual lifestyle as I love my wife but disagree with her polital view of war and poverty.

    “The Church”, said Tim Keller, “is not a museum of saints but a hospital of sinner”. Homosexuals would not hear our message unless we act what we preach.

    Thank you for a great post.

    • Kevin SIne

      Thanks for commenting on this post. I agree with everything you’re saying here. We are the chief sinner as Paul says. Sometimes we forget that.

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